[LISA LEWIS] The Am I Ok? Podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Faith Fringes, the Holistic Counseling Podcast, and Beta Male Revolution, go to the website, www.practiceofthepractice.com/network. Welcome to the Am I Ok? Podcast, where you will discover that being highly sensitive is something to embrace and it’s actually a gift you bring to the world. We will learn together how to take ownership of your high sensitivity, so you can make positive changes in your life, in the lives of others, and it’s totally okay to feel this way. I’m your host, Lisa Lewis. I’m so glad you’re here for the journey. Welcome to today’s episode of the Am I Ok? Podcast. I’m your host, Lisa Lewis. Today, I have a special guest. Her name is Chris McDonald. I got to know Chris from Practice of the Practice and she has launched her second podcast, which she can tell us about. But first I’d like to tell you a little bit about Chris. Chris is a licensed professional counselor and holistic provider with a group practice Path to hope counseling in North Raleigh, North Carolina. She is a 200-hour registered yoga teacher and offers gentle yoga classes, workshops, and private yoga sessions. She specializes in treatment of anxiety, depression, trauma, and grief in young adults in transition. She teaches clients relaxation skills, mindfulness, meditation, and uses brain spotty in treatment of trauma. Chris also offers therapy for therapists and wrote the book Holistic Self-care for Counselors. She is passionate about helping other mental health therapists and created the Holistic Counseling Podcast. Her favorite holistic daily routines include yoga and meditation. Welcome to the podcast, Chris. [CHRIS MCDONALD] I’m so excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me, Lisa. [LISA] You’re very welcome. I like to ask all of my guests, if they consider themselves highly sensitive. And I was curious to know if you consider yourself highly sensitive. [CHRIS] I think that’s an interesting question and I know you were asking me that before we started. I do consider myself highly sensitive, but I’ve taken like some of the surveys and stuff online. I don’t think I meet all the criteria, but I do find that I have different areas that I am very highly sensitive. I don’t know if that’s common for sensitivities, that you can have certain areas that don’t bother you and then other ones that do. [LISA] That is very common. So do you mind sharing which ones that you fall in or? [CHRIS] Some things that I’m sensitive with is sound. I can get overwhelmed by too much sound and things that are too loud really bother me like certain people’s voices. That’s just something I’ve come to really recognize as I’ve gotten older. I don’t know if it’s just a highly sensitive thing or if that’s just who I am. [LISA] Yes. And how have you learned to adapt to it or how do you manage that when it’s too loud or the sound is bothering you? [CHRIS] I have to take like quiet time. That’s why I like to do, the morning is my quiet time and I’d like to start my day with that and just everybody’s asleep and I just do my own thing in my yoga room at my house and do some meditation and just take some time outside as well just grounding side being in nature helps. [LISA] I’ve seen your post on Instagram with you doing yoga and your different yoga poses and it’s really good. Looks very inviting. [CHRIS] Oh, good. I’m so glad you like it. [LISA] So can you tell my listeners, these can be people that are already know that they’re highly sensitive or could be a parent or a loved one or a friend who has a person in their life that’s highly sensitive and they’re wanting to know how to best help them, how to best be with that person. So this is a great, I think a great question and something that you can help listeners with. If they’re like seeking out therapy, different kinds of therapy, what is holistic counseling? [CHRIS] So holistic counseling is looking more at the whole person and treating the whole person, not just the mind. So it focuses on mind, body, spirit. It’s a more in-depth way of looking at counseling in a person in treatment. When I do an intake, and everybody’s different as far as holistic counseling, by the way, so this is the way I do it. So for me, I do a more in-depth intake. I have a longer form that addresses more of these. When I say looking at mind, body, spirit, I also look at things like exercise routines, water intake, eating habits, those kind of things, spiritual beliefs. So some of these are not always addressed in traditional counseling. So I find that starting in the beginning to really get to know a person and all the factors that can impact them psychologically is so important. I’ve always found that holistically for me I can’t imagine thinking any other way. To me, it’s just like essential part of what I do, so ingrained in who I am. And I feel like I live a holistic lifestyle as well. So it’s just the way I see the world, I guess. So the holistic health is just so much different than traditional talk therapy, where it’s more just talking and maybe using kind of behavioral strategies where you try to look at your negative thoughts and how to change them to more helpful thinking; which is great, but for me, this is something that I find can take your counseling, if you go to a counselor, takes it to a whole other level in a way, because you’re adding additional things, also like modalities like energy healing, or some people use yoga like me or there’s essential oils. There’s so many different ways that you can use that, that might be different from what people traditionally think of as therapy. [LISA] I was thinking about your intake form, if there was a question about how much is your water intake, and I would be asking, why is she asking me this question and what does that mean? Am I drinking too much or too little? [CHRIS] I always preface that too and tell clients at the first session like, I know you completed this form and I’m probably asking questions about why is she asking all these questions? So I do remind them that I am a holistic therapist. So I do look at all these different areas. And spirituality, money beliefs, like some of those are not used to answering for counseling. [LISA] Yes. And being highly sensitive and just being sensitive to the questions and also liking like those really deep questions and really specific questions, because that tells me as a highly sensitive person, like, oh, she’s really going to get to know me and know what really works for me. [CHRIS] Yes. I really try to take my time getting to know clients because I worked in community mental health and we had like an hour, was it hour and a half to really get to a diagnosis and like get to know somebody and jump right in. But I take like three sessions to really get to know someone and take the time and I feel like getting all that background. And all the things that influence them as a person, overall person is so important before we can really get traction in therapy. I think it’s important to get that background information. Another reason I like it too, is let’s say I have someone come to me with depression. So I want to look at physical causes too and rule that out. Because I have had people come that have low vitamin D or they have thyroid issues. So they need to get that looked at before they can really pursue the mental health piece. So let’s get the physical in the right place before we move on the psychological. [LISA] And I know you touched some about traditional counseling. What are some more, what’s the difference between holistic counseling and traditional counseling? [CHRIS] Well, like I said, it’s really looking at the whole person, really looking at other areas that might not be addressed like spirituality, for example. So one thing I ask is, and I put this on my form, because I always like to ask, are you comfortable talking about religion or spiritual beliefs? If they say no, then we don’t address it. So it’s always up to the client, they lead the way and if that’s someplace they want to go. But I think it’s an important part of who people are and can be an important part of coping. For example, someone that uses prayer or meditation can be also a spiritual belief. So using that more and talking about that and how that can be beneficial in therapy I think is so important and really moving them forward with their counseling. Because otherwise I think you’re ignoring, which could be a very important part of who they are. [LISA] And as a therapist myself, who I consider my type of therapy as holistic, I would be really curious of why someone wouldn’t want to talk about their spirituality if they listed it. [CHRIS] Yes. Some people don’t and that’s cool. I do get some people that are atheists that don’t have any beliefs and that’s cool too. I don’t push any beliefs. It’s whatever, wherever they are, accept them wherever they are and if they want to talk about it, they can, if not, you just have to accept that as it is. But I think it is helpful. One thing that I do find with like grief counseling is there’s some kind of spiritual belief that can really help them to move through a little bit quicker than if they don’t. So having, grasping something like that, especially for grief therapy, I find is most beneficial. [LISA] Have you seen an increase in grief counseling from the pandemic? [CHRIS] I’ve had a lot more referrals in the past year and a half as I’m sure many have definitely with the pandemic, because again, there’s so many losses. And again, with creeping up now with cases and the variant going on, I think that we’re going to see more of them. [LISA] Yes. And just, I’m just thinking in the loss of life also, just the loss of maybe like time or just the loss of so many potential things that people are looking forward to vacations and graduations and all of that and that’s part of the grief counseling. [CHRIS] Definitely. That’s so much to adapt to and then with, we thought things were better and then all this is creeping up and all the restrictions that start to come back. I think that’s really difficult when people don’t know day from day to day what’s what else is going to change and what’s new. That can cause a lot of anxiety as well. [LISA] And how would you work with someone and knowing like there’s the uncertainty, the unknown is still out there and feeling anxious, how would you work with them from a holistic approach? [CHRIS] With holistic, I start more with the body first and not necessarily jumping right into thoughts and the psychology part, but really what the somatic part is where I start in doing some breathwork with them, really learning how to calm the body and mind through breath work; also doing some of my yoga to get them going before we dive too far in, too deep with other issues. I think that’s so important to get people more grounded and ready to go. I think that’s an important part of what I do too, is if let’s say somebody, for example comes to me and they’re really hyped up and they’re mind’s racing, they can’t settle down, we’re not going to sit and just talk. We’re going to do some breath work. We’re going to do some meditation or movement something to kind of ease that out and then move on the top part. [LISA] Do you have to convince people to do like the body work? Because I remember when I first started therapy and my therapist as a body mind therapist was at me what’s happening in my body and I’m like, wow, no one’s ever asked me that. I don’t even know. [CHRIS] Well, a lot of the people that come to me, they read my website and understand that I’m a holistic therapist. And usually if I do a consultation, I talk to them as well. Most people are pretty open to it but it’s always an invitation to do this. This is not like I’m forcing people to do any breath work or any of the modalities I use. So it’s always an invitation to, do you feel comfortable doing that today? And if they don’t, that’s fine. We can move on to something else. So it’s always up to them. They lead the session and I just offer suggestions, facilitate the session. [LISA] And what timeframe do you see people making a shift and maybe even the way they feel inside their body? [CHRIS] So it depends on the person, but most people, if they’re following through, because I always say you can’t come to therapy and expect everything to turn around, just coming to therapy, you got to do things outside of the session. I give therapeutic homework and it’s important for them to follow through in order to get the most benefit. So let’s say that somebody does that usually within a month or two, they really start notice some changes, some shifts, especially if they’re being consistent with whatever the homework is. It really can make a difference, especially some people that have never done breathwork and they’ve had really shallow breathing and had a difficult time regulating it all. So it really is about changing the nervous system. That’s the other part of this is; I talk to them about psychoeducation about the brain and how trauma works and anxiety and how we’re working to turn on the parasympathetic nervous system and to help them calm themselves and learn how to regulate their own emotions. [LISA] Do you also recommend meditation or do you teach meditation? [CHRIS] Yes, I teach it and I also recommend it as well as part of treatment, if they’re open to it. Like I said, it’s not required, but it can be a helpful part. [LISA] Do you ever have clients that to say, “Oh, I’ve tried meditation. It just doesn’t work for me.” [CHRIS] Of course, yes. So I do have other kinds of meditation I teach as well. Some people do better with walking meditation where they need to move, using movement with meditation, which most people aren’t familiar with. They just think that, yes, you just got to sit in a room and sit quietly and watch your breath. That’s hard for a lot of people. We all get the monkey mind. But sometimes walking meditation or I teach breathing meditation, where you use a mantra and you touch your different finger. So you start with your forefinger, touch your thumb. Let’s say you have a mantra of peace be with me, peace be with me. So if you touch your forefinger to your thumb, say peace and then middle finger to thumb and then ring finger to thumb and then the pinky to thumb. So you’re basically moving your fingers as you do the mantra and just that. So sometimes people need something different than just sitting for meditation or more guided meditation as well. [LISA] Yes. I was doing that as you were just explaining it. [CHRIS] And it takes a minute to explain. [LISA] Yes, and I’m doing it like over and over again. And can you say more about what’s happening as I touch my fingers or someone’s touching their fingers and saying those words? What’s happening in the body? [CHRIS] So I think what it can do is still the mind too, because you’re, and a lot of people I see have like racing thoughts, and this is distracting the brain. It’s taking it out of that, intrusive thoughts or racing thoughts and creating a new neural pathway in the brain. So everything we do with these things, there is a neurological basis to it physiologically. You can change your brain. Isn’t that awesome, just by doing some of these things. There’s research on that kind of meditation I just told you that it actually helps prevent dementia and Alzheimer’s. I thought that was fascinating. So there’s something in the brain with using that movement and just using a mantra. And a mantra for those that don’t know, it’s just like a word or a phrase that you connect with, something you want to bring into your life or just a mantra could be sound. There’s all different ways you’ve probably heard of. There’s all different kinds of mantras you can use. [LISA] How would a highly sensitive person benefit from holistic counseling? [CHRIS] So many ways. There’s so many different strategies and things, and I’m still learning too through my podcast. Like I cannot believe how many different kinds of modalities are out there and so many great things that we can try, everybody can try. And I think first is just thinking about experimenting to see what works for you, because maybe meditation isn’t for you and that’s okay and accepting that. But I think as highly sensitive people that you can get overwhelmed. I know that’s the other part. I didn’t mention that. I get overwhelmed if I’m around people too much and I need to decompress and take a minute. So one thing that I do teach is how to release that energy, sometimes if energy of others connects to you and if you’re an empath, I don’t know if you talk about that on your podcast, Lisa. [LISA] I do. [CHRIS] Yes. So a lot of us are empaths. We can take on others’ energy and then next thing you know that you’re feeling some emotions maybe you don’t usually have and can be really confusing. So I teach, and I know some other holistic counselors do as well, how to release that. How do you let that go if some of these energy attaches and one simple way is to just remember with the energy that you can tell the energy to release? And one way to do that is to say, I release any energy that’s not mine. And you can imagine it if you can use visualization to release it into the earth, imagine it coming out through your feet, into the earth and remembering that earth is a great recycler of emotions and energy. So we’re not polluting the earth. We’re releasing, letting it go. And it’s all part of the natural sequence of things. So yes, I think that learning to manage your own energy and guard against others’ negativity is so important. So I don’t think it’s talked about enough that a lot of people don’t even have that awareness that this can happen. Because I know for me as a therapist, what’s happened, I’ve had some depressed people I cannot work with. I’ve had to set boundaries because I end up, their energy is so low, their vibration or something and that I am so depressed for days and I’m a depressed person and all my strategies would not work. So just being careful who you hang out with, who your friends are, because that can really be difficult too, and kind of make it difficult to release some people’s energy. [LISA] How would you know, is there a signal inside your body that says okay, I’ve released this or I or I don’t have this in inside me anymore? [CHRIS] I find there’s a shift. For example, I’ve had like the end of the day, if I do that and say, I release any energy that’s not mine I don’t feel it right that second, but let’s say I get to my car and I start driving. It’s like an inner sigh. That’s what I call it. It’s like, huh, and I start to feel back to my normal kind of content, just normal, emotional state, I guess you could say, especially if I start to feel like that heaviness in my chest or so it’s really being able to tune in like, how do I feel right now? And do I need to release some of that? And if I do, let me let it go and just see what happens maybe 30 minutes from now. Or do I need to try to release that again and let it go? [LISA] I love that. [CHRIS] Yes. So does that answer that question about holistic counseling? [LISA] It does. And just as HSPs it’s very common for them to take on other people’s energies and not knowing what’s, there is what belongs to somebody else and just that empath of wanting to take care of everybody. [CHRIS] Yes. That’s huge, especially for women and really being careful with your energy and being sure to fill yourself up too, because it’s easy to get in the mode of got to take care of others and do things to help others and trying to protect others from their feelings. And that can just wear you out too. [LISA] And speaking of filling up how would, whether it’s a woman or a man or anyone, how would they fill themselves up? [CHRIS] Filling your own cup, right? Self-care. That’s why that book too, for especially therapists and other helping professionals, because it’s so important that you have to keep yourself full. I think too, especially when you’re giving to others, whatever your role is in life; that if you’re not in the best state of mind and you’re always on empty, you’re not going to be your best to give to others or as a helping professional to help others effectively, because you just don’t have it. You don’t have the bandwidth. So I always teach one way too is to do some kind of routine in the morning to kind of start your day, each day, filling yourself up. Like I said, I do some yoga meditation. It doesn’t have to be that. It could be, maybe you just take a minute to sit quietly and connect with yourself. Or maybe you just want to do some breath work, finding what works for you, just to take those moments even throughout the day. Because a lot of people wait till vacation or time off to really fill their cup, but you have to do it daily. This is a daily intention taking breaks throughout the day no matter what your job is just to go outside. I used to, when it’s not real hot, go in the parking lot and walk around, do laps in my parking lot, just to move during the day. People thought I was that crazy person but I find just movement can be helpful throughout the day just to keep yourself going. But also looking at your basic needs; are you eating lunch? Are you eating enough? Are you eating breakfast? Those things to keep your energy going Because let’s say that you skip both meals and you’re going to be depleted by two o’clock and your energy is low. You could be more irritable. So all those things are connected. So thinking about what is it that you need each day, because it might be different every day. Maybe you just need to connect with a friend that day and you haven’t connected with someone in a while. And listening to those inner needs. [LISA] And going back to your like intake form, just those questions that you asked in the very beginning and how, and as you explore that and it kind of putting like the puzzle together. [CHRIS] Good way to put that. That’s true. And sleep too is also huge. Sleep affects everything. I talk to everybody about sleep and talk about holistic sleep routines and different ways to be sure you’re getting enough sleep and strategies for that because I think that can really cause so much havoc on your mental health if you’re not getting enough sleep. [LISA] I have family members and also clients that, and they have a hard time sleeping and they wake up in the middle of the night and then their brain kicks on and then it just goes down a rabbit hole. How do you help people with that? [CHRIS] As far as the waking up, especially with brain racing, keeping a notebook by your bed and just writing down what is on my mind. I know this happened to me recently where I woke up, but I was like, oh my God, I didn’t send that email. I don’t know where that came from. I didn’t think of it until when I went to bed. Everybody has that experience, but I think, let me just write it down and then remind myself that I will get to this. I have it taken care of. So just kind of encouraging yourself too, once you write it down so that hopefully you can let it go. But with some of the breathing practices I teach I encourage them to do the breathing as well to get into the physical part of themselves, to calm themselves. And usually that can be helpful to get back to sleep, mentally writing it down, but then physically doing something like breathwork. [LISA] Wow. Well, you do have so much wealth of tips and I can see why you’re so good at holistic counseling. [CHRIS] Oh, thanks Lisa. Well, I just love this topic. I could talk all day. That’s why I created the podcast too because it’s just fun for me to learn and experiment and try new things and help other people as well, to try to figure out what works best for them. [LISA] What advice do you have for someone that if they say, oh, I’ve tried so many things and nothing’s working and they just want to give up? [CHRIS] Don’t give up. Got to keep going. So yes, just, just keep exploring, figure it out as far as what is it that you need? Again, intuitively. So tapping into that intuition is so important to say, what do I need, what would be helpful for me and meditating on that? I always say the meditation with a question; taking a minute and just ask that question, just see what kind of answers come up, keep a notebook near you, write it down, whether any images, thoughts come up. You could do that before you sleep to see if anything comes up in dreams, connecting with that inner part of you that might be able to share that. But again, doing research too, to figure out what else is out there. Is there some other holistic strategies like maybe you’ve never tried Reiki. That’s a very healing modality and can help with emotional and physical things or essential oils. Just keeping that hope that there’s stuff out there that can help everybody, I think is the thing to remind yourself of that. [LISA] Yes, that’s a great reminder. And I know you’ve offered, you’ve provided many tips of how to take care of yourself, whether it’s sleeping or just taking in other people’s energies. And I was wondering if you would provide us a quick grounding exercise. [CHRIS] Absolutely. This is one of my favorite things to do. I do a lot of grounding with clients. I find it helps everybody and everybody can use it at some point. So if you’re not sure what grounding is, it’s just kind of connecting to yourself and settling the mind down, getting more into your physical self, similar to mindfulness, that present moment awareness. So if you are not driving, go ahead and just have your feet on the floor. If you’re at home or outside, doesn’t matter. Don’t close your eyes if you’re driving and just try to close your eyes or look down at the floor in front of you. Just try to settle in wherever you’re seated, connecting with your body, connecting with your breath and just notice your feet. See if you can wheel toes for a moment, noticing what, they’re there and what those sensations that come up and see if you can rock from heel to toe in your feet. Just noticing how that feels in the bottom of your feet as you go heel to toe and come to stillness. Imagine you have roots from the bottom of your feet connecting you to the earth, connecting to Earth’s energy. Imagine that energy coming up through your feet and anything you want to release releasing through those roots. Just feel that earth energy coming up through your legs, releasing any tension, any pain, any discomfort. And noticing that chair beneath you, supporting you, holding you up, feeling that earth energy, still coming up through your torso, your belly, through your back, releasing what no longer serves you. And feeling that place where your hands meet your lap and feeling that earth energy coming through your shoulders, releasing, seeing if you can soften your shoulders right now. That could mean just simply rolling them back or forward, or just moving them back and forth, feeling the earth energy down your arms, into your hands and into your fingertips and feeling it coming up through your neck and your head; releasing any headache or tension. See if you can soften your face, soften that place between your eyebrows, soften, your jaw, open your mouth a little so your jaw has tension to help release that. See if you can connect with your breath. Just notice if your breath is shallow breath right now, or a deeper breath, without judgment, just noticing where you are. See if you can feel your chest rising on the inhale, falling on the exhale, noticing that rising and falling. Just think about intention for the rest of your day. What is it that you need right now? See if you can see it forming in your mind. It could be a picture, a word, a thought. What do you need for the rest of the day? What would help you? Just hold onto that and see if you can wiggle your fingers, toes, bringing your awareness back and gently blinking your eyes open if they’re closed and just taking a look at your surroundings, looking from left to right, and then back to left again, and then just notice how you feel and that’s all. [LISA] Wow. That was beautiful. [CHRIS] How was that Lisa? [LISA] I feel so good. [CHRIS] Oh, I just tuned right into those. So yes, I just feel like that’s so powerful. [LISA] Oh, that was wonderful. And that, I mean takes what, that was like three minutes, maybe four minutes? And I know people say, I hear it often like, oh, I can, it’s so much easier when someone’s guiding me, if someone’s helping me do it. [CHRIS] Yes, I hear that too. [LISA] Do you recommend using any guided meditations? [CHRIS] I do. I think that it can help a lot of people. I use Insight Timer. It’s an app with thousands and thousands of meditations that are free. I recommend that to clients as well. That’s one of my favorites, I think. [LISA] Yes. I like that one too. [CHRIS] YouTube has some decent ones too. [LISA] Yes. Well, that was just beautiful. I just loved it and I can feel, as you’re going up the body, I can just feel my body just releasing, letting go. [CHRIS] Isn’t that powerful? [LISA] So powerful. [CHRIS] I just think if you did that every day. [LISA] Yes, every day. [CHRIS] We all need that. [LISA] We all do. So my last question I would like to ask you is what is the most important thing you want listeners to know about holistic counseling? [CHRIS] I believe it can be for everybody. It’s not just for us on the woo spectrum; that some people that are out there and more, I guess, hippie like that I think there’s a part of it that everybody can connect with. And it’s about overall wellness. So just try to simplify it, just look at it that way. It’s about looking at how can you find your best self and what would be overall wellness for you? What would that look like and thinking about that? So there could be only bits and pieces you could connect to, but that’s. Just know that’s for everybody. [LISA] It sure is. It is for everybody. Where can listeners get in touch with you, Chris? [CHRIS] So my podcast link is www.holisticcounselingpodcast.com. For your listeners, I do have a free nine-part email course called Becoming a Holistic Counselor. So on there too, you can learn all different parts about learning about modalities. I know you mentioned that some people might be interested in that. So even if you’re not a counselor, you can still have access to this and learn about the different modalities. I put my favorite links in there about for holistic practices. So this might be something to take a look at. And I also have my practice website, which is www.pathtohopecounseling.com. [LISA] Great. Thank you so much. All of that will be in the show notes as well. And thank you, Chris, for coming on the show today. It’s been so wonderful to speak with you and provide all of your knowledge and expertise on holistic counseling. [CHRIS] Thank you so much for having me. [LISA] Thank you my listeners for tuning in today. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review wherever you get your podcast. To find out more about highly sensitive persons, please visit my website at www.amiok.podcast.com. This is Lisa Lewis reminding each and every one of you that you are okay. Until next time, take care. [LISA] Thank you for listening today at Am I Ok? Podcast. If you are loving the show, please rate, review and subscribe to it on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you’d like to learn how to manage situations as a highly sensitive person, discover your unique gift as a highly sensitive person, and learn how to be comfortable in your own skin, I offer a free eight-week email course called Highly Sensitive People. Just go to amiokpodcast.com to sign up. In addition, I love hearing from my listeners, drop me an email to let me know what is on your mind. You can reach me at lisa@amiokpodcast.com. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want to professional, you should find one.